Live from an Israeli bunker: Life in Haifa

Monday, August 14, 2006

Life in Haifa - A picture

The view from the house of my friend, about 24 hours ago a rocket hit about 5 km (3 miles or so) from his home. When the sirens goes off he goes into an inner room with enforced walls for protection. The number of rockets seemed to decrease a little bit, but really it's more of the same.

Myself I'm busy working away, you will see a lot of content and changes in the next couple of weeks, stay tuned.

34 Comments:

Welcome Home Eugene! You were missed. Glad to see you're back at it so soon!

By RJ, at 12:54 PM
Well, hopefully both sides will stop bombing civilian targets.

more strange news: General: Troops lacking food may steal from Lebanese stores

It's sad that the israeli army is unable to feed their soldiers, and even sadder that they would consider theft a solution.

By qzx, at 4:04 PM
and even sadder that they would consider theft a solution

at least they aren't TERRORISTS! I swear qzx you are so full of crap. You now have received your attention for the day. Happy?

By support4israel, at 6:16 PM
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

By thorsagen, at 6:46 PM
i guess being a thief is slightly better than being a terrorist. but the israeli army and their actions are regarded as terrorism by many people. this includes the opinions of israelis and israeli soldiers, some of which have even refused to serve the army at risk of trial and imprisonment.

so everyone's being called terrorists. what's the solution? just say the other side is full of crap?

i'm not here for the attention. i'm here to see how people counter-argue, what they think, make them think.

By qzx, at 7:59 PM
qzx said:

"but the israeli army and their actions are regarded as terrorism by many people. this includes the opinions of israelis and israeli soldiers, some of which have even refused to serve the army at risk of trial and imprisonment"

qzx,

You are correct that some Israeli's think the Israeli army are terrorists. The Israeli's who believe this are extreme leftist secular Jews and Israeli Arabs.

There are many reasons why a soldier would not want to serve even at the expense of going to jail. I would bet that they are probably not for the reasons that you think. Some of the reasons include:

*August 2005, and other disengagement issues. Jews should NEVER throw other Jews out of their homes or give up 1 inch of land. There were those serving who refused orders.
*Some people did not want to serve in this past month's war. Israel had a plan drawn up 2 or 3 years ago on how they would wipe out Hezbollah very quickly. But since the secular Israeli gov't has to appease the nations of the world and answer to people like George Bush they decided not to defend themselves properly. Hezbollah would have been wiped out if they implemented their 'plan'. Under this situation, there were soldiers who refused to serve.

By worldpeace613, at 1:31 AM
worldpeace613 said:

Jews should NEVER throw other Jews out of their homes or give up 1 inch of land.

So why was it ok to make all those Palestinians refugees Are Jewish lives and livelyhoods more valuable? If you think so have the bravery to say it!!

Jews may claim to the lands "between the Nile and the Euphrates" but that doesn't give them you the right to dispossess people and expect them not to fight back.

I find it the height of irony that Israel would launch a BLITZKRIEG on Lebanon and are expanding thier LEBENSRAUM settlements into Arab land. As we have learned in recently South Africa and Nothern Ireland there cannot be peace till all sides have some justice!

By olufela, at 2:01 AM
I believe his an orthodox jew, but either way you misinterpreted his meaning.

We decided to uproot people from their homes and forcefully move them, it's a painful decision and the country was torn about it but the majority voted for it.

Try to imagine however being a soldier having to go and knock on the door of a family from your country, look at the kids, tell them they have to go, and forcefully carry out people that wouldn't move. It's a painful thing to do, and some had a difficult time doing it. Is that so hard to understand?

We did do it.

As for your comments on: "BLITZKRIEG on Lebanon" - That is ridiculous, are you seriously comparing the bombing of London to Beirut? Specific neighborhoods were targeted, most of Beirut is as it was.

"expanding thier LEBENSRAUM settlements into Arab land" - Nobody is building any houses or settlements, the only people in the south of Lebanon who are Israeli are IDF forces. We have no desire to stay there and will move out as soon as an international force will arrive to take our place.

By Live from an Israeli bunker, at 2:10 AM
I do appreciate that it was a painful gesture for Israel to evict it's own people from thier homes. It was a gesture meant to demonstate the willingness of Israel to take on its extremists who, it has to be said, only resorted to minor acts of violence. The truth however is that the Jewish settlers were living in land that did not belong to them to begin with.. Palestinian land according to the same UN that Israel is putting all its' hopes into today! That is the Arab land i refer to as LEBENSRAUM.

It is true that only the Southern suburbs of Beirut were bombed by the IAF but what about Tyre and all the other villages and towns south of the Litani? How is the bombing there different to BLITZKREIG?? I fully acknowledge that Hezbollah started this current conflict. The truth however is that the effect of the population subject to bombardment is the same whether they live in London, Dresden, Tyre, Bint Jbeil or Kiryat Shimona. When under bombardment people tend to rally round and support thier leaders and fighting forces.

As a UK resident, I did not know the Hassan Nasrallah by name although i had heard of fleeting references to Hezbollah. Now I will forever remember them as the only military force that the IDF has been unable to defeat... first in the occupation of 1982 to 2000 and now in 2006.

By olufela, at 5:02 AM
Sorry for the language but these "people" bring out my most vile thoughts... and words.

By tesanista, at 5:10 AM
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

By olufela, at 5:28 AM
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

By tesanista, at 5:08 AM
No need to quote it, please edit it out. You are correct and I removed his post.

tesanista I realize sometimes it can be upsetting, but it doesn't help. Your welcome to post, just try to avoid doing that in the future. Thanks.

By Live from an Israeli bunker, at 5:50 AM
"The Israeli's who believe this are extreme leftist secular Jews and Israeli Arabs."

nope. check again. plenty of orthodox rabbis against all this. definitely NOT a secular movement. Some even go as far as opposing the very existence of israel. personally, i'm not that extreme.

"Try to imagine however being a soldier having to go and knock on the door of a family from your country, look at the kids, tell them they have to go, and forcefully carry out people that wouldn't move. It's a painful thing to do, and some had a difficult time doing it. Is that so hard to understand?"

yeah. sadly, it wasn't that hard to do the same and worse to (i don't know how many) the palestinians for the past several decades. over 1,000 palestinian homes demolished in less than 3 years. nope, not a problem at all, is it?

By qzx, at 6:45 AM
I didn't invite an argument but explained an event to you. Is your imagination so lacking as to grasp what I was talking about?

Some of the settlments we forcefully made people leave are as old as 30 years.

"nope. check again. plenty of orthodox rabbis against all this. definitely NOT a secular movement. Some even go as far as opposing the very existence of israel." - They have religious reasons, it has to do with their interpertation of certain things, nothing to do with politics (they do not reside in Israel either). You are just desperate to grab anything you can whether you understand it or not, and you especially like things that in your minds eye somehow prove your point because the opinions belong to Jewish or Israeli people.

"palestinian homes demolished" - After suicide attacks their homes are indeed demolished, that's right.

You somehow see it fit to complain when you hear how we basically did what you are in favor off. No pleasing you, is there? Just unloading information that you do not fully understand and trumpeting your point no matter what the discussion is about. I let you talk plenty, but what you are doing is a times no better then profanity filled comments.

I suggest you produce better comments in the future. And please don't respond to this saying something like "ooooh, by better you mean YOUR point of you", no, it's not what you say it's how you say it.

By Live from an Israeli bunker, at 7:05 AM
That is SO scarey!

By Lisa, at 8:32 AM
They have religious reasons... they do not reside in Israel either..."

you didn't watch that documentary i posted a while ago did you? there are israelis living in israel protesting. there are israelis who help rebuild demolished palestinian homes as well.

"Some of the settlments we forcefully made people leave are as old as 30 years."

i'm sure it is extremely difficult to leave one's home. but surely you can also understand that those homes were built on land that doesn't belong to them?

"palestinian homes demolished" - After suicide attacks their homes are indeed demolished, that's right.

yes, of course. that's the natural response to suicide attacks. demolish people's homes.

look, the sad thing is that it's such a mess that there is no solution that's going to make everyone 100% happy. there are 100,000 (i think) Israelis living in settlements on land that, according to UN resolutions, is palestinian land.

on the other hand, many palestinians make claims to land inside what is now Israeli territory. and these people also need to realize that according to UN resolutions, that land is gone.

i mean seriously, let's face the facts. the land will never be 100% arab or 100% israeli. but i still think an end to violence is possible, if each side would admit they are partially at fault. i don't think grudges and hate would end immediately, but perhaps a next generation, born in relative calm, would be able to accept and befriend the other side.

please point out any counter-arguments you have against what i say. and when have i ever said "by better you mean YOUR point of..."....???? i try as best i can to present and defend concrete arguments.

By qzx, at 8:40 AM
whats up man qzx i have a question how many fights you been in i been in plenty dont start um i just got messed with alot cause i was big........i always walked away for the waeker combatant to win he only has to survive all you talk about is evil evil israel well maybe they do a few bad crap now and then but its different from declaring war on every person of a country and not having the balls to fight with honor......oh god and dont start with" but those so called terrorist dont have tanks or jet".....em tell me somethin has hezzbollah ever bothered to try and just fight the idf.....emmm no they are cowards who are worse than a rabid dog they hid behind the same women they abuse and try to keep illiterate well i heard on the news the first days of the war"we just want to fight them face to face" did it ever happenno they hid behind inocents in schools hospitals houses if the us fought that way in iraq we would be on the choppin block. no but if a guy crys i do this for god..hes a hero or just reluctant my but how many of those freedom fighters got in hezzbollah so they could show they were powerful. i bet alot in the us most those guys be in prison or dead or beating there wife at night

you act as if israel does only bad and hamas hezbollah plo and all the other nut less wonders were freedom fighter....there no there the same people who picked on kidds in school because they were different or smarter hell they probbly did it to you

just from now on look at the other sides veiw imagine living in an area where everyone hates you all believe you evil and no on listens....when those in power in the middle east decided that to tell people that jews are only lying baby killing sub humans they cut off the lines of comunication

nazharall must be brought down all those who use hate as a waepon on the innocent must be brought down.will they no the worlds slowly being turned into a place where honor is only fable a fairytale.......i know what it means to be poor hungry i wish the lebonese and palastiians and israelis could get along hell look at ya you like all 3 the size or florida put together

end of rant

qzx heres the way it is

israel withdraws from plastinian territory when hamas stops blowing up busses of children

israel stops destroying houses when hamas stops kiddnapping people

in the us we have ppl from every color cread and religion?....why dont we have constant civil wars and religious wars......its called tollerance.....we teach it where hezzbollah hamas and all they others teach hate

heres hoping un will restore my hope in them

By james, at 9:20 AM
dear james,

"em tell me somethin has hezzbollah ever bothered to try and just fight the idf..."

uhm... yes as a matter of fact they have. if you check the records, hizbolla kidnapped IDF soldiers. then, after a day and a half of israel bombing lebanese civilian targets (airport, power plants, etc), hizbolla started firing the katyushas.

"you act as if israel does only bad and hamas hezbollah plo and all the other nut less wonders were freedom fighter"

did you even read my post?

"israel withdraws from plastinian territory when hamas stops blowing up busses of children. israel stops destroying houses when hamas stops kiddnapping people"

i'm not being sarcastic here. this makes alot of sense. BUT, doesn't it also makes sense for the palestinians to say "we stop the violence when israel withdraws."?

and about teaching hate... how many israelis believe the land was empty before jews moved in? how many believe palestians aren't real? that they should all just leave their land?

you know what, forget about that, unless you'd like to comment, but i have an important question. i have yet to see a direct answer to anything i've asked, but what the hell, i'll give it a shot.

how is the occupation of palestinian land helping prevent terrorism? isn't it just generating more terrorism?

By qzx, at 10:16 AM
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

By olufela, at 5:30 AM
ok no its not but your a cannadian right? well you probbly dont get this so simpile terms

israel pulls out of gaza strip=hamas and other terroeist organization are free to move around with no fear

israel pulls out of palastinian territories = same thing as pull out of lebanon "ok we give" it shows weakness in a region were it could kill them

and last but no least MY GOD WHAT WOULD THE NEWS AGENCIES HAVE TO RPORT ABOUT IRAQ PLEASE OLD NEW!!!!

By james, at 3:59 PM
ok, an answer! let's discuss this further.

don't you think israeli occupation is causing more and more people to sympathize with terrorists?

so in a sense, this occupation is a double-edged sword. on one hand, terrorists can't move around easily. but i think it's quite obvious they're not having a very hard time moving around.

on the other hand, palestinians are living miserable lives under occupation. israel appears to be pure evil to these people and to much of the world. this results in sympathy to the terrorists, who to them appear to be fighting oppression. it also makes it much easier for these organizations to recruit more people.

so the occupation (of both lebanon and palestine) acts as an ineffective preventative measure to terrorism, and as a strong generator of even more terrorism.

in this sense, the occupation on average create more terrorism, instead of reducing it. what do you think?

i have more points, but let's focus on one thing at a time. please continue the discussion.

By qzx, at 5:39 PM
"you didn't watch that documentary i posted a while ago did you? there are israelis living in israel protesting. there are israelis who help rebuild demolished palestinian homes as well." - I was taking about the Rabbi's you mentioned. "plenty of orthodox rabbis against all this."

Your posts improved, great, thank you.

You are however lumping a lot of things together, that's fine but here are a few answers for you.

"i'm sure it is extremely difficult to leave one's home. but surely you can also understand that those homes were built on land that doesn't belong to them?" - Obviously, I never said anything different.

"yes, of course. that's the natural response to suicide attacks. demolish people's homes." - Perhaps I wasn't clear, the home from which the terrorist headed out and blew up a bus for example, not just random houses. The house of the terrorist.

"but i still think an end to violence is possible, if each side would admit they are partially at fault. i don't think grudges and hate would end immediately, but perhaps a next generation, born in relative calm, would be able to accept and befriend the other side." - I'd like to think that as well, it's somewhat different in reality however. I'm just not very optimistic. We have tried to take steps over and over again, we pulled out, uprooted settlements, the ball is in their court. A large number of them (perhaps most) instead took it as a sign of weakness.

"please point out any counter-arguments you have against what i say." - Please realize that just because I'm Israeli doesn't mean I don't agree with you on every single thing. Some of what you said is true, I feel the same, however other things you say are inaccurate or not very realistic.

"i'm not being sarcastic here. this makes alot of sense. BUT, doesn't it also makes sense for the palestinians to say "we stop the violence when israel withdraws."?" - Not really. We said over and over, if there was a stop to the terror they would get what they want. "Lets do MORE terror" is a reaction you would like to rationalize but really, there's now way to do that. I'm sorry. Your not grasping their thought proccess (I'm not generalizing, some are like that, unfortunatly enough of them are).

"and about teaching hate... how many israelis believe the land was empty before jews moved in? how many believe palestians aren't real? that they should all just leave their land?" - ZERO. Now here you cross the line, you base that on absolutly nothing. Our school program is leftist, it's PRO palestinian and teachs government criticism for pits sake! I know more then one person who died from terrorism, can you say the same? So forgive me for not running out and hugging them or liking them much, but we all acknowledge that they are human beings and when the country voted to uproot our own people (they shouldn't have built there in the first place, but it's a difficult thing to vote for) in favor of giving them land most of the country voted yes. Those who didn't were for the most part concerned about security.

"how is the occupation of palestinian land helping prevent terrorism? isn't it just generating more terrorism?" - You know how the terror plot in the UK was foiled? We have that on a DAILY basis, we don't even hear about it. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, the terror attacks that do happen are those that we miss, they are successful in about 1 one of every 50 attempts. Ponder this for a while.

"so the occupation (of both Lebanon and palestine)" - Lebanon is not occupied. Unless your talking about the Shebba farms.

Your main point is that our actions create more terrorists, perhaps that's true, I'd be glad to hear you offer alternative courses of action other then "well if both sides would just realize they are wrong and hold hands and sing". (no offense at the quotes_

By Live from an Israeli bunker, at 7:14 PM
thank you also for your reply.

with regards to what you said about schooling, you are right. it just frustrates me to see all the misinformation that is out there. for example, just google "israel history" and see what the first result is.

and again about the suicide bombers homes. i don't think you are 100% correct here. can you honestly say there were 1,000 suicide bombers in 2 years to justify the demolition of over 1,000 houses?

and to top it off, is destroying the house appropriate in the first place? arresting people from the home on the basis of being accomplices to the crime would makes sense. why punish the children that happen to live there?

as for the rest, perhaps you are right. maybe things are just in too much of a mess to be solved in an instant. but still, people need to try to at least not let things get worse.

that's why it's important that palestinians understand how israelis think, and vice-versa. it's exactly why i'm talking to you people here. i want to try and spread understanding between the two sides.

By qzx, at 8:06 PM
We are not responsible for google search results, qzx. I echo your feelings about there being a lot of misinformation out there however.

"is destroying the house appropriate in the first place?" - Usually the family is in support of this and receive payment before hand. "What is there for a father other then sacrificing his son for his religion?" is a quote that is not uncommon. The family's (most) basically support and encourage terror in this way, letting them get away with that unaffected is not really an option.

Also, some of those houses are illegally built, we try to not allow illegal settlements from both sides.

"it's exactly why i'm talking to you people here. i want to try and spread understanding between the two sides." - Are you Palestinian? I might be wrong, but I thought you were Canadian. Either way, this is a big part of why I'm doing this, your comments are welcome and are much better, I'm happy to have you post here.

By Live from an Israeli bunker, at 8:18 PM
How could you imagine a quite and love life in "your" new land, since 1948, even if our people put the people in place out, leaving their houses, their lands, their jobs, how could you believe it could be a day ? when you built with war, you will leave in war, God can't nothing for you, israel is built putting people away, with violence, sorry, you coudn't think about peace...Really sorry...For you

By didierevi, at 9:14 PM
In 1947 there was an offer for two countries and an international Jerusalem. We accepted it, the Arabs did not.

Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq attacked as soon as Israel was born. We didn't built with war, we survived war and built.

"sorry, you coudn't think about peace" - Sorry, but you can't tell me what I think.

By Live from an Israeli bunker, at 9:33 PM
"we try to not allow illegal settlements from both sides."

illegal palestinian settlements... on PALESTINIAN LAND??? come on!

the israeli govt makes it virtually impossible for palestinians to get permits to build on their land. eventually, they get desperate and build anyways.

and why is it even israel's business to start with?

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By Anti Spywares, at 11:19 AM

Live from an Israeli bunker

Monday, August 14, 2006

Life in Haifa - A picture

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